06.05.08
Happy jumpy Ruths… Interop takes a step
At about 11:00 AM, Linden, Ruth arrived on an OpenSim server, quite quietly. and to her surprise. We had been testing some code, and I’d asked Layla Linden to try to log on again, to see how the bug looked on the client side. But.. the latest fix, put on moments earlier, was, in fact, the last one we needed. I logged in as well, and several other folks from Linden lab joined us. Here we have Me, Layla Linden and Tess Linden.
What’s to unusual about logging into OpenSim? Nothing. But.. this wasn’t a normal login. All three Avatars had been logged on via the Agent Domain in the Linden Lab Aditi test grid. The Agent Domain took a “place_avatar” request from the client, and issued a “rez_avatar” request to the OpenSim, which handed the Agent Domain the necessary details so it could relay it to the client, and permit a login. We’re all Ruth, because we’re not yet syncing the agents with openSim inventory yet. That’s just a small matter of programming… (Well, that’s what we programmers always say.) We have no inventory, and we’re stuck on the single region. But.. It’s a very nice first step.
Next steps will include better syncing with the OpenSim environment, handling teleport in and our requests, and then starting in on how to fetch assets from the test grid. As the code gels a little more, it will get posted to the OpenSim tree, so that people who want to explore this function, can enable it for testing.
Perhaps as importantly, we’re starting to generate concrete feedback to the protocol and architecture work, based on actually coding to it.
~ Zha
* * * * Added June 8th * * * *
Just to clarify a few points after talking to a number of people. This is very preliminary testing, and very much a “Oh, ok, so we can make this work, now we need to solve these three or four problems.” And, of course, when I say get posted to the OpenSim tree, it means submitted to the community, for the usual review process. Additionally, one of the things which needs to happen for me to feel comfortable with the shape of the code, is making it very easy to chose whether or not to run it, and how to manage it. Trying to be a good open source community member and all.
For those wondering about the implications of this work in terms of how Second Life is going to evolve? I’m certainly not the person to speak to about such things. Linden Lab runs Second Life, and they are the only people who can speak to their plans. I will point out, that this is a very first step, along a fairly long path that’s been discussed repeatedly by Linden and participants in the Second Life Architecture Working Group. There are a large number of steps from simple hacked code, to anything resembling a set of inter operating worlds. Discussion and proposals on how to manage trust, content protection (Bounded by technical reality) and similar issues, are part of the ongoing discussions.
As always, feedback, comments, and thoughts are more than welcome. Here, in world, or via e-mail
~ Zha
opensource obscure said,
June 5, 2008 at 6:22 pm
that’s great!
First successful test of interoperability between SL and OpenSim - SLUniverse Forums said,
June 5, 2008 at 8:55 pm
[...] successful test of interoperability between SL and OpenSim Happy jumpy Ruths… Interop takes a step « Zha’s Virtual Musings "At about 11:00 AM, Linden, Ruth arrived on an OpenSim server, quite quietly. and to her [...]
Dale Innis said,
June 5, 2008 at 9:07 pm
friggin’ A!
Rez Tone said,
June 6, 2008 at 5:50 am
…a small step for Ruth, a giant step for Enterprise.
Great Work!!!
Shenlei said,
June 6, 2008 at 6:57 am
Yay! Go Zha! Interop now!
Dusan Writer’s Metaverse » OpenSim and Second Life Interoperable said,
June 6, 2008 at 10:35 am
[...] According to Zha’s Virtual Musings: [...]
Dedric Mauriac said,
June 6, 2008 at 11:49 am
So benefits … if a very large concert is about to occur on someones sim, you will potentially have the possibility (in way distant future) of letting people login to an OpenSim to see a mirror of the performance to avoid lag and server crashes?
MMO Clerks » Historic teleportation: One small step for Ruth said,
June 6, 2008 at 11:31 pm
[...] According to Zha Ewry, at 11AM SLT (US Pacific time), Zha Ewry, Layla Linden and Tess Linden completed a successful cross domain teleport from the Second Life Aditi (preview) grid to an OpenSim simulator, essentially a teleport of the agents from one virtual world to another, and the first demonstrable step in cross-virtual-world interoperability. [...]
One Small Step for an Avatar… « Sean Heying’s Blog said,
June 7, 2008 at 1:16 am
[...] Ewry, Layla Linden and Tess Linden are the avatars who took this historic first step towards interworld [...]
edParadigm » Second Life Rezzidents Step into the Metaverse said,
June 7, 2008 at 1:33 am
[...] Thanks to New World Notes, where I learned of the first crossing of avatars from SL into another grid. At about 11:00 AM, Linden, Ruth arrived on an OpenSim server – Zha Ewry [...]
eightbar » Blog Archive » Jump Around, Jump Around get up get up and get down - Interoperability said,
June 7, 2008 at 7:48 am
[...] albeit across very similar platforms. One of the best places to read this is here at Zha Ewry’s blog as he’s running the IBM side of the [...]
Annie Ok : tangent » Happy jumpy Ruths… Interop takes a step said,
June 7, 2008 at 11:00 am
[...] via http://zhaewry.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/happy-jumpy-ruths-interop-takes-a-step/ [...]
ArminasX Saiman said,
June 7, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Congratulations! This is a very important step.
SL interoperability makes nice progress said,
June 8, 2008 at 3:28 pm
[...] Read the full story here. To describe it in very very simple words: They managed to login on the “normal” (test) Grid of Linden Lab and then teleported to an OpenSim. But as pointed out by Zha: Just to clarify a few points after talking to a number of people. This is very preliminary testing, and very much a “Oh, ok, so we can make this work, now we need to solve these three or four problems.” [...]
Prokofy Neva said,
June 8, 2008 at 7:13 pm
http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2008/06/ruth-among-the.html
Primer “teleport” entre plataformas Second Life – OpenSim : El Metaverso | Mundos Virtuales | Second Life said,
June 9, 2008 at 1:22 am
[...] podemos leer en “Zha’s Virtual Musings”, el viernes dĂa 6 se consiguiĂł teletransportar un avatar desde Second Life hasta OpenSim. En [...]
Interconnexion SecondLife / Opensim, ça marche :) « SecondLife Observer France- SLObserver.com said,
June 9, 2008 at 2:56 am
[...] univers, celui des Lindens, et celui d’openSim. C’est donc ce 05 juin 2008 qu’ils ont fait le grand saut depuis la grille beta de SL (ADITI), et malgrès quelques petits problèmes mineurs, ça [...]
Gareth Nelson said,
June 9, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Hey there Zha
I’m wondering if this is related to your comment of “pondering that URL scheme” from the supergrid?
Gareth Nelson said,
June 9, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Just in case you forgot:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Gareth_Ellison/Supergrid
August Hayek said,
June 9, 2008 at 2:30 pm
This is inspiring news.
I can see it now… we’ll be back to the breath-holding days of interoperability “bakeoffs” like my typist experienced when the Internet was mostly an academic exercise.
If LL really does have visions of SL being the next Mosaic, embracing this may be one of the best things they can do. The question of the hour is whether the VC’s will grasp the broader significance and opportunity.
Rip said,
June 9, 2008 at 4:07 pm
This is amazing guys. Kinda like the when the first man orbited the planet huh, but in this case metaspace. I wonder what this activity sparked at LL ? It would be interesting to know i bet. Good Job guys regardless!
Hugobiwan Zonir said,
June 9, 2008 at 4:22 pm
This is what we are waiting for !
In France we have a great opensim grid (about 60 regions together, just beginning).
SL has the community and great contents and features, Opensim has low price hosting and, in fact, interesting features especially concerning import (3D, with Realxtend), and OS functions.
I like SL a lot but i think jumping from SL to Opensim (and others !) is very very important step. Want beta testers ?
Best regards
Hugobiwan Zolnir
http://sldirect.blogspot.com
Banana Stein said,
June 9, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Congrats!
I have been hoping for this type of news for the last year and I am very impressed. Thanks for all of your hard work.
Banana
Chili said,
June 10, 2008 at 6:49 am
Great, but I do not think you are the first ones. We have tried it from SL main grid to RealXtend Sim, by using the RealXtend viewer. When we did that, we did not bring our SL avatar over to RealXtend, but we also “converted” into Ruth’s. What really happens, is that we log out of SL, and log into RealXtend, is it not the same you did Zha? I am looking forward to the day, I can run a SIM on my own server, and be able to TP from SIM to SIM, no matter where the SIM is located, in SL, OpenSim or RealXtend.
Keep up the good work, and let us know if we can do anything to help you.
Un petit pas pour l’avatar, un grand pas pour l’interropĂ©rabilitĂ© Second Life / Open Sim said,
June 10, 2008 at 8:31 am
[...] Vous retrouverez davantage de prĂ©cisions sur la page de l’intĂ©ressĂ©e [...]
ZenWarrior Fuosing said,
June 10, 2008 at 3:11 pm
…a dream [finally] realized. Congratulations.
Toni Alatalo said,
June 10, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Chili,
the difference of this and what you have been able do with the RealXtend viewer for long is that here the people were getting *authenticated* by the LL SL to the OpenSim server – a single login, no logout & login needed when changing the system (grid you might say).
That is also the target of RealXtend, which is why we also use separate user and avatar etc. servers there, but authenticating from LL SL to OpenSim has not been done before. So this is great news, as the goals seem to be similar anyway and much of the base tools can be shared.
Hoping that clarified it a bit,
~Toni (a RealXtend developer and hopeful AWG groupie)
Saijanai Kuhn said,
June 10, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Interested folks should vote on this jira:
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1272
Create a set of permissions flags immediately that identifies “creation grid only [grid name]“/”trusted gird”/”any grid” to apply to all existing permissions settings with “creation [grid name] grid as the default setting
See the description and comments for more info.
Saijanai
Prokofy Neva said,
June 11, 2008 at 12:37 am
Saijanai, I fail to see the unseemly haste in hammering out these permissions in this way. If the default is “trust no one except the original Linden grid” then leave it at that until there is time to educate people on the issues.
Otherwise, it turns into an All-Union subbotnik where many people are brow-beaten into opening up their content “for the good of the Metaverse” and if they don’t, seen as stingy, backward, FUDded, etc.
Furthermore, I’m sure I’m not the only one, as a mere lay person looking at this, that wonders what “a grid” is. The Lindens constantly talk about “the Grid” with a holy gleam in their eye as if it were “everywhere our software plays…and everwhere something connects to our software”. By that definition, the entire real world is “America” — but of course, other countries see it quite differently!
You also have no definition for what “trusted” means. Trusted…by whom? Who decides? To do what?
It’s good that you’re at least thinking “permissions” but it just seems to me that not enough heads have gotten together on this one. You people are in a tiny little cabal. The worse thing is, you don’t realize it, and keep pouting that you are misunderstood.
New Media Reflections » Uniting Worlds said,
June 11, 2008 at 12:32 pm
[...] Read about it here. [...]
Jeff Barr’s Blog » Links for Wednesday, June 11, 2008 said,
June 11, 2008 at 12:38 pm
[...] Zha’s Virtual Musings: Happy Jumpy Ruths… Interop Takes a Step – “What’s to unusual about logging into OpenSim? Nothing. But.. this wasn’t a normal login. All three Avatars had been logged on via the Agent Domain in the Linden Lab Aditi test grid. The Agent Domain took a “placeavatar” request from the client, and issued a “rezavatar” request to the OpenSim, which handed the Agent Domain the necessary details so it could relay it to the client, and permit a login.“ [...]
almoogaz said,
June 12, 2008 at 10:01 am
just read,
thanks
sombra digital » Un pequeńo paso para Ruth… said,
June 13, 2008 at 2:09 am
[...] hace 25 ańos de IBM y líder del Architecture Working Group ha realizado consiguiendo realizar un teletransporte desde Second Life a OpenSim. Este paso es fundamental para crear MEtaversoso libres, donde cada usuario pueda combinar sus [...]
Nächster Schritt in Richtung Interoperabilität | Second Life Talk said,
June 13, 2008 at 10:22 am
[...] an. Von dort aus sprang der Avatar Ruth Linden auf ein OpenSIM-Grid. Gelesen bei Sebi, Details bei Zha’s Virtual Musings FĂĽge diesen Artikel als Bookmarks hinzu Tags: Avatar, GRID, linden lab, [...]
Understanding Virtual Worlds | One Step Toward Interoperable Virtual Worlds said,
June 16, 2008 at 12:24 am
[...] Labs has successfully moved an SL avatar to OpenSim according to a post made earlier this month by Zha Ewery. Although the news was kept pretty low key, I can’t help but think this is the equivalent of [...]
Natasha Yi said,
June 19, 2008 at 6:15 am
Hi…Man i love reading your blog, interesting posts ! it was a great Thursday .
Jim Brock said,
June 24, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Sometimes I wish I was born 20y earlier and days like these I can’t wait for the future to arrive…
UgoTrade » Blog Archive » New Release from realXtend and Modular Integration into OpenSim said,
July 2, 2008 at 11:30 am
[...] on interoperability between the Linden Lab grid and OpenSIm. See Zha Ewry’s blog post, “Happy Jumping Ruths…..Interop takes a step,” to see just how far this work on interoperability between OpenSim and the Linden Lab grid has come! [...]
eightbar » Blog Archive » Teleporting across virtual worlds said,
July 8, 2008 at 10:52 am
[...] may have heard talk of this on his blog, our very own Zha Ewry appears in this video on the Linden Blog. (thanks John Sisk for tweeting [...]
UgoTrade » Blog Archive » IBM & Linden Lab Launch Protocols for Virtual World Interoperability said,
July 8, 2008 at 11:00 pm
[...] with Linden Lab’s Architecture Working Group. Zha has personally coded the patch and she blogged her progress on this last month. Zha’s interop patch can be viewed [...]
Teleport, over de virtuele grenzen heen. - Second Life Crew said,
July 9, 2008 at 8:25 am
[...] rapporteerde de IBM staff hier al eerder over, sinds 8 juni is het Linden Lab ‘certified’: een kleine teleport voor een avatar, [...]
Synthetic Me » Blog Archive » IBM and Linden Lab Interoparability Announcement said,
July 23, 2008 at 3:44 pm
[...] Torley Linden. Il lavoro sull’interobalità è importante, come ha dichiarato David Levine (Zha Ewry in Second Life) perchĂ© introduce il concetto di protocollo ed apre la possibilitĂ di connettere [...]
Inflection Point? « ubiwar.com said,
August 13, 2008 at 3:22 pm
[...] by Tim Stevens on 13 August 2008 Back in June, beta testers successfully teleported an avatar called Ruth from Second Life to an OpenSim server. Brian White, who also blogs at Virtual [...]
Could there be a future without big grids? « justincc’s opensim blog said,
August 15, 2008 at 6:18 pm
[...] and a Region Domain containing the region simulators themselves. As we’ve seen with the OpenSim – Linden Lab interop work, one can log into an OpenSim region server via an Agent Domain. However, it remains to be seen as [...]
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